When we talk about cults, we talk about blind following and being unapologetic for even those things that are blatantly inexcusable. If that's cultish, then aren't deobandis the biggest cult of all? The Biggest Cult! In other words, do Deobandis actually admit to holding beliefs that are kufr? Sunni response : Course they don't. Otherwise why would they hold them?

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When we talk about cults, we talk about blind following and being unapologetic for even those things that are blatantly inexcusable. If that's cultish, then aren't deobandis the biggest cult of all? The Biggest Cult! In other words, do Deobandis actually admit to holding beliefs that are kufr?

Sunni response : Course they don't. Otherwise why would they hold them? Sunni response : Interpretations are invalid in explicit words.

Are you saying there are no non-Deobandi scholars who did not interpret these passages as insults? If some impartial non-Deoband i scholars understood them to not be insults, maybe they are not explicit?

A fatwa of Hafiz Ibn Taymiyyah. In that book, on page 85 it mentions that this phrase " mitti mei milne " idiomatically means " to be buried ". Maybe the other passages can have similar explanations. If so, it would be necessary to avoid calling them kufr. Sunni: Saman Alam pretty sure Imam Ahmad Raza exhausted the hundreds of possibilities over 13 years of back and forth conversation with those scholars of Deoband before he finally gave the fatwa of Kufr. Theses disputes have become like Chinese whispers.

That's why it wasn't Thomas or Richard, it was 33 of the greats of Haramayn. If there is legitimate disagreement, the view of it not being kufr is the safe position. What exactly did they exonerate? Nor do I think most people are. I posted why that book is a total deceit. Does he mean every particular from the particulars of ghayb or a part of it, whichever part it may be? Time starts now.

If that book is an exoneration, show us the passages verbatim that ulama of Haramayn said weren't kufr. Surly the students of the person would have a better understanding of what the text is implying also vice versa.

If the deobandis believed they weren't kufr, why not quote the precise words Where in that book are their passages that were deemed to be kufr by 33 ulama of Haramayn? Some things would obviously be lost in translation from Urdu to Arabic. But what in your view makes the above paragraph not kufr and the original paragraph kufr? Show me from your translated passage these words.

See page 63 of "A Critique of Husam al-Haramayn". So the words say, "This kind of ilm ghayb", or in the translation of Muhannad, "The knowledge of some ghayb", which is what "this kind of ilm ghayb" refers to.

Based on what I have mentioned, is the translation of Muhannad a linguistically valid meaning? The words are in Urdu and that's the rule in Urdu. I've not even commented on the signatories of Muhannad yet.. And why should we forget what deobandis themselves said about aysa?

Husain Ahmad Tandwi , anyone? When it says "such knowledge of ghayb", could it not be referring to "the knowledge of some ghayb" as translated in Muhannad? Is this linguistically possible or not?

So which two things is SUCH comparing? If we accept partial knowledge for Zameel, then what is his speciality? Such knowledge is also held by animals and madmen. Such is comparing Zameel with dogs and pigs.

This has to be so as according to Zayd to be called Knower of the Unseen it is enough to have any piece of knowledge of the Unseen, and it is certain that all these beings have some knowledge of the Unseen.

If they do not then at the very least they have knowledge of their Creator and that too comes under Unseen knowledge. It is possible there is no mushabbah, and the word "aysa" means "this kind of knowledge of ghayb", referring to some knowledge of the unseen.

Based on this, the rendition of Muhannad is a possible linguistic meaning and the original passage is not kufr. What do you think, is this disrespectful to a chap called Zameel: If it means Zameel has partial knowledge, then what is special about him? Is that insulting the knowledge of Zameel or not? Or Thanwi himself: If we accept partial knowledge for Ashraf Ali Thanwi and because of that we call him aalim, then what is special about Thanwi?

Hand on heart, would you accept that for Thanwi? It was binding upon him to present the actual passages to the scholars of Haramayn and their correct translations and the meaning which he understood from them. He should then have asked the scholars of Haramayn whether these are the meanings of these passages or not and are they free from kufr or not?

Another passage was said to be the summary of the subject of Tahdhir al-Nas and at the end of another passage, he wrote that here end the words of Thanwi. In al Muhannad Khaleel Ambethwi never presented the actual text. Remember that. Can you answer this question. Is the rendition of Muhannad a possible linguistic meaning? It's not possible to present the actual text when you are communicating between languages! The question is whether the meaning was accurately conveyed.

Sunni: Saman Alam it is definetely possible. Khaleel Ambethwi was a teacher in arabic literature. Khaleel made his own interpretation and presented it. When he can write a whole book in arabic. How can he not translate the passages? This clearly reflects injustice and dishonesty that actual texts were not presented.

Because it was the word AYSA that was the basis of kufr and it is that very word that Muhannad omitted. Why did he give his interpretation rather than a translation?

Manzoor Numani agreed with Alahazrat's translation, by the way. One presents according to his own feelings. Where on earth this happens? Particularly when you are in court of Ulama Haramain. They were deemed kafirs for the verbatim.

Here's the exact translation and this is the meaning. The poet Ameer Minai in his famous Urdu lexicon Ameer al-Lughaat, explaining the word aysa, writes: 1. Of this kind; used in a phrase such as, to make a pen-case like this is difficult for any person, Aatish.

Also, there is no beloved like her in the garden of the world — neither is there a rose that emits her fragrance nor is there a fruit with the like of her pleasure.

This amount or extent; like this he struck him aysa maara such that he was left lifeless. Keeping this in view the passage of Mawlana Ashraf Ali Thanavi becomes completely faultless and under no circumstances can it be said he was guilty of blasphemy against the Messenger Allah forbid , the very thought never crossed his mind. Is it not possible that " aysa " could mean "this kind of ilm al-ghayb", referring specifically to "some knowledge of the unseen"? Is this a possible meaning or interpretation?

Astaghfirullah Please, why don't you stop for the sake of your iman? This much knowledge of unseen is also possessed by all and sundry [Zayd, Amr]; even infants, lunatics and all the animals and quadrupeds. Deobandis clearly have their reasons, linguistic etc. They presented their understanding, and were exonerated of kufr. It seems you will jump to only the worst possible meaning. What is the need at all to mention amounts and quantities?

You can just say partial or total unless you wish to equate the amount? Then why say aysa, 'this amount of partial knowledge of unseen is also held by animals. Amounts and extents are mentioned for quantities, not types. Partial knowledge is a type. Total knowledge is a type. Amount of partial knowledge is for quantity. Do you deobandis have any intellect at all? An "amount" or "extent" does not have to be static but can be variable, as with the amount of "partial knowledge of unseen".

It means: "anything less than total". This amount of knowledge of unseen is attainable by animals and madmen. It's silly. You'd just say, partial knowledge. If you mention an amount, it only means quantity.



Hussam ul Harmain … PDF download. For this ugly statement in which Shaykh Ashraf Ali Thanvi has compared the prophetic knowledge of the unseen with the … ashraf ali thanvi deobandi. Skip to main content.. Topics quran, hadees, bukhari, ilme gaib, wahabi, salfi, hanfi, sunni, barelvi, … Download hifzul iman ashraf ali thanvi urdu: as straightforward guidelines to adhere to while running and making use of an item.


Hifzul Iman and Shaykh Thanvi

He lost his mother at the age of five and was raised by his father with special care and attention. His father taught him and his younger brother, Akbar 'Ali, discipline and good character. During these years, he traveled to various cities and villages, delivering lectures in the hope of reforming people. Printed versions of his lectures and discourses usually became available shortly after these tours. Until then, few Islamic scholars had had their lectures printed and widely circulated in their own lifetimes. The desire to reform the masses intensified in him during his stay at Kanpur. Deobandi elders, including those accused in the Fatwa, prepared a reply to questions sent to them by the scholars of Hijaz to clarify the matter.


Ashraf Ali Thanwi


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